Datop5izstill alive

August 22, 2008

So I wrote that BIG and Pac are NOT The greatest of all time NOR are they in the Top 5…AND that the Top 5 are STILL alive and over 30 (Shiddddd The top 3 is 40 and up)
The Whole LIST is almost 40

What does it take to be labeled the GREATEST of ALL TIME (in my eyes?)
Now this is my criteria
Classic Album (Gotta have at least 1)
Classic Songs (Gotta have at least 5)
Memorable verses (gotta have at least 2)
Lyrical Skill…can rhyme with NO beat and it’s still hot
Lyrical Content…Has to have the ability to rhyme about something…not just the latest whatever is out drink, bitches, cars
Storytelling Foundation of Hip Hop is to be able to tell a story and make it hot and visual

…Who would they be? Okie Dokie…

1. Rakim (40)

Classic Album: Paid in Full (Arguably THE greatest Hip Hop release ever)

Classic Songs: Paid in Full, Microphone Fiend, My Melody, Eric B is President, Know the Ledge, Mahogany

Memorable Verses:
“I’ll take 7 MC’s put em in a line
and add 7 more brothers that think they can rhyme,
and it’ll take 7 more before I go for mine…
and that’s 21 MC’s ate up at the same time.

“I start to think and then I sink into the paper, like I was ink
when I’m writing I’m trapped in between the lines…
I escape when I finish the rhyme”

Lyrical Skill: Paid in full was over almost no beat…his words make you wait for the next

Lyrical Content: From Know the Ledge (Knowledge) from Juice to The Ghetto, to getting ill on “The Punisher”…what else?

Storytelling: Mahogany…nuff said.

eclectik commentary:

The God emcee, there’s really not much you can say about him…he’s the Walter Payton of Rap; he came in changed the game forever
Lyrically to this day he’d body any one on the Mic, he’s been on songs with Nas, Kool G, Em…and no one out shined him
Nas even dedicated a whole song to him on Streets Disciple (U.B.R)

NBA Equivilant: Jordan
NFL Equivilant: Walter Payton

2. LL Cool J (40)

Classic Album: Bigger and Deffer (BAD)

Classic Songs: BAD, I can’t live without my radio; I need Love, Big Ole Butt, Around the way girl

Memorable Verses:
“Mcs they retreat cause they know I can beat em
And eat em in a battle and the ref won’t cheat em
I’m the best takin out all rookies…
So forget oreos eat cool j cookies”

“I want a girl with extensions in her hair…Bamboo earrings at least 2 pair”

Lyrical Skill: He’s eaten Many an emcee in a battle

Lyrical Content: Hip Hop’s first ill Love song to Mama said knock you out

Storytelling: Big Ole Butt, The Do Wop is one of the most underrated GREATEST Hip Hop Story songs ever

eclectik commentary:

In my opinion LL has the BEST argument for being called the G.O.A.T #1
Ladies Love ran through all comers: Kool Moe Dee, Ice T, Hammer, Canibus, Made I need Love, The Women love him, Fellas think he’s cool… He has classic on top of classics
Movies, TV Shows, Each release he has AT LEAST One Hit on it

NBA Equivilant: Isaah Thomas
NFL Equivilant: Barry Sanders

3. KRS One (42)

Classic Album: Criminal Minded (Arguably the other greatest Hip Hop release ever)

Classic Songs: Criminal Minded, South Bronx, The Bridge is over, My Philosophy, Love’s gonna getcha

Memorable Verses:

“Manhattan keeps on makin it,
Brooklyn keeps on takin it,
Bronx keeps creatin it,
and Queens keeps on Fakin it!”

“Girls look soo good,
but their brains aren’t ready I don’t knooow;
I rather talk to a woooman cuz their minds are so steady so here we Goooo”

Lyrical Skill: He Sonn’d people before LL did…classic battle; one man took on All of Queens and shut it down

Lyrical Content: Come on…he’s the Teacher AND made Criminal Minded….peep You must learn, I learned a ton just off that song alone.

Storytelling: Loves gonna getcha, The remix for P is free…it goes on.
…dont forget SELF DESTRUCTION!

eclectik commentary:

KRS is probably all around the greatest ever from: Lyrics, delivery, stage performance, content, and impact…he and Rakim were like the Lakers and the Celtics
LL was like The Pistons; KRS led the Stop The Violence movement and actually taught through song and lyrics…along with dismantling Sucker Emcees
(And he threw Prince B from PM Dawn OFF the stage)

NBA Equivilant: Magic Johnson
NFL Equivilant: Emmitt Smith

4. Nas (34)

Classic Album: Illmatic

Classic Songs: It aint hard to tell, If I ruled the World, I gave you power, One Love, Life’s a Bitch

Memorable Verses:

“Deep like The Shinin’, sparkle like a diamond,
Sneak an uzi on the island in my army jacket linin,
Hit the Earth like a comet, invasion,
Nas is like the Afrocentric Asian, half-man, half-amazin”

“Feel the wind breeze in West Indies,
I make Coretta Scott-King mayor the cities and reverse themes to Willies,
It sounds foul but every girl I meet to go downtown,
I’d open every cell in Attica send em to Africa”

Lyrical Skill: The entire illmatic CD,Every song that came out in the 90s that he made/was featured on was a must listen…beat didn’t matter.

Lyrical Content: He did a story backwards…he ethered Jay, Did the Song I can…can rhyme about anything

Storytelling: I gave you power…nuff said.

eclectik commentary:
Nas is basically Rakim for the newer generation; problem is they don’t appreciate him…lyrically he’s either #2 or #3 all time
(You’d be surprised at who I’d put there at the other spot) Illmatic is a certified classic from beginning to end, the only other albums on this top 5 that could be considered that are: Paid in Full and Criminal Minded
I admit he kinda lost me in-between Nastradumas and I am…but the lyrical skill is forever ill.

NBA Equivilant: Iverson
NFL Equivilant: Marshall Faulk

Seriously though HE said:

Sentence begins indented, with formality
My duration’s infinite, money-wise or physiology
Poetry, that’s a part of me, retardedly bop
I drop the ancient manifested hip-hop, straight off the block
I reminisce on park jams, my man was shot for his sheep coat
Childhood lesson made me see him drop in my weed smoke

5. Jay-Z (38)

Classic Album: Reasonable Doubt

Classic Songs: Politics as usual, Aint No.., Streets is watching, dead Presidents, Hard Knock Life

Memorable Verses:

“Divine intervention Can’t stop I, from drinkin Mai-Tai’s,
with Ta Ta Down in Nevada, ha ha, Poppa,
I dabbled in crazy weight without rap,
I was crazy straight…Potnah, I’m still spendin money from eighty-eight”

“While y’all pump Willie, I run up in stunts silly
Scared, so you sent your little mans to come kill me
But on the contrilli, I packs the mack-milli
Squeezed off on him, left them paramedics breathin soft on him”

Lyrical Skill: The First two CDs showed he had the skill the word play with BIG and the imagery of Reasonable doubt.
Lyrical Content: He makes party songs, Songs for the streets, and songs for the ladies

Storytelling: You must love me, Regrets

eclectik commentary:

Personally I feel this is the weakest of the top 5 (Thus being 5) He’s become a horrible shell of his former self and in my opinion hasn’t made a complete “Decent” CD since The Blueprint (The Black Album was garbage)
As far as my criteria he kinda falls short on the storytelling too BUT I cannot deny the hits, the wordplay, and the influence
Even if he was a BIG Dick rider and his rhyme game is next to wack these days.

NBA Equivilant: Karl Malone
NFL Equivilant: Jerome Bettis
…..

Of course people will disagree…and that’s fine
But when you do, come with some actual factual a decent argument…call me crazy but:

BIG he only had 2 CDs…It’s not my fault.
Ready to die is a modern day classic…but it wasn’t even the best CD to come out that year
(Illmatic, Dare iz a Darkside and Tical also came out in 94) He had the potential to be one of the greats…but the 2 CDs (especially Life after death) doesn’t hold up

Pac didn’t have the lyrical skill…the songs he has a couple of classics but nothing that stacks up to these 5
The wordplay and the criteria just doesn’t match up for me

I will never get why people want to throw Andre 3000 in any convo for greatest ever…I could understand Ice Cube he could be
I wont even broach the Lil Wayne topic….Kanye would Body Wayne.

If need be I’ll do another post with the rest of my top 10 if anyone is interested.

FRESH for ’08 you suckerrrrrrrz

Zemanta

http://www.renaissanceblackwoman.blogspot.com Eb

u suck… and it took you long enough to do this post…

you cant put LL in it because he didn’t stay true to MC’ing… now all he has is this bubblegum ish…

I can vouch for you on all the others… but definitely swap Pac for LL
http://www.myspace.com/mann_moore Brotha Mann

I agree with you mostly but I think that ANDRE 3000 is one of the illest!!
Great Arguments though.

Playlist is great. I am head bobbing right now.
lovnlife

OKAY OKAY OKAY.
Excellent breakdown.
I can’t argue the list and ITA about BIG not having the overall collection to measure up to these dudes, but Andre 3000 is in my top 5.
Shoot me I’m from the South.
Take out Jay-Z and put him there.
Next up e’s thoughts on top 5 Femcees with Roxanne Shante being #1 of course. 🙂
http://anonymouscox.blogspot.com/ Tittayballs

No love for 22 Twos?

I personally love Pac. But I guess to each his own. Maybe the criteria should be a bit stiffer. Mobb Deep had two classics– up here in NY Tri-State Area, anyway. (Maybe not in your neck of the woods.) But I wouldn’t consider them any G.O.A.T.

I feel Andre is in another category. He’s one of my favorite rappers and I’m from up north. I like variety, though.

In a dabate about todays rap, is fair to compare the Jay-Zs to the Mos Defs, or Mos Def to Scarface? I don’t think so. They all go in their own category of rap. I guess that’s why the list is composed of rappers around the same era (80’s-90’s era).

These days rap is so different. You have your grown folks rap, underground, kiddie-bubble gum rap, and now there are even metrosexual rappers! lol! But rap is mostly shit now. I could probably count on one hand the amount of rappers that have come out since 2000 that I actually feel. My favorite rappers are old school heads, too.

((I still love Pac!))

=)
Tmaculous

E…i feel ya and gotta respect the list…BUT you cant penalize Biggie because he doesnt have the content of these others. He only released 2 albums but take the best two albums of any of your top 5 and stack em up against Big Poppa’s 2 and its reeeeel close.
I also think Andre 3000 is convo worthy.
http://www.skoolboisplayground.blogspot.com Krush

E – I think you got the right five but in the wrong order.

1. Rakim
2. KRS-One
3. Nas
4. LL
5. Jay-Z
mirabelle

WOW. You’re saying thet Jay has fallen off but LL HASN’T! WTF! You must have not heard his latest single. cuz if you had you wouldn’t even have him on the list.
http://coopdujour.wordpress.com/files/2008/04/nkotb-then.jpg Coop

3stacks is the sh!t man. I take it personally when folks don’t give him(them) love. lol
Dre doesn’t half-step whenever he rhymes. Just pick a song, any, from any Kast album or soundtrack or mixtape. I’ll even give you his freestyle on Green Light. Freestyle. Not to mention Da Art of Storytellin Pts I-IV. Matter of fact, just take Synthesizer.
Listen to them and honestly tell me he’s not extremely talented. I’m not saying he’s the greatest ever, but he’s consistently great. Give him that.

BTW – Ohio ain’t so bad. lol 🙂
http://www.myspace.com/siakdizzy dilly

– I like the list, E… to ME, personally, I am still not too sold on LL… i LIKE him, but to me he isn’t what he was when he first came out and was crushing dudes. and im not taking anything away form you, like i said, cuz i have no major qulams with the list and it IS your blog and YOUR opinion, lol.
– but i can’t take ANYTHIGN away from Rakim,
KRS-One, and Nas… and HOV is my dude albeit like you said, he doesnt have the hunger he once had. and YET despite “falling off” he is still better than ;ike 98% of the people IN the game today. and that’s more a telling sign of the game today. it just aint the same…
-as for kanye, wayne, and 3000… i think the argument has to be in this generation’s time FIRST, before it goes to ALL time status. they all DO need to have a heavier collection in order to have something to qualify and quantify what they CAN be. but i feel like they each ring something different to the game. with wayne, its his delivery…with kanye it’s his rhyme and wordplay… with 3 stack’s its his consistency. with time i think you may take a liking to 3 stack’s and kanye (more than you do now)…
-and yeh, i am never one for all time this or all time that, cuz its SOO subject and with times changing it gets tricky.
– i WANT to see that top 10, E… THEN a top 20… and then round it up with a top 25….
-goood post, man
http://anonymouscox.blogspot.com/ Tittayballs

^^ Good points to all the posters after I posted. (Maribelle, Coop, and Dilly) LL has fallen off rediciously! That latest single is hot garbage!

I, too, will be waiting for the Top 10 List…
wahoo4uva

OK, so…I’m a novice at analyzing hip-hop, and by your standards I’m probably not a true head, but I do have a level of appreciation for the music, so I felt compelled to comment…

I’m surprised that LL has made this top 5 list. From his records I’m familiar with, he doesn’t touch the depth of others on the list; however, the examples you cited are some of his better work. But #2?! Agree with others that his new single is JUNK.

Your thoughts on Jay-Z puzzle me. I’d place him above LL based on lyrical content and clever wordplay. I’ll admit my opinion is biased, because he is among my favorite — if not THE favorite. But, the Black Album…garbage?! How? One of my favorite albums — among all music genres. I may be swayed by the production/tracks, which I think were excellent — realizing that they do not compensate for the other elements that make a complete album. Still interested in what qualifies it as garbage though. I was not in love with Kingdom Come nor his latest single.

Curious about your thoughts and breakdown on Eminem. Definitely interested in the remainder of the top 10.
http://the12planet.blogspot.com/ 12kyle

*steppin in the room kinda late but i got my late pass.*

first…you know i got maaad respect for you, e. you are a hip hop head like me.

second…i love these kinda posts. however, we must keep in mind that it’s all subjective.

that said…here’s my .02

1. Rakim
I think his lyricism and delivery sets him in a class by himself. I think he could further add to his legacy if he came out with a new album (been waitin’ for a min)

2. Jay Z
I don’t think there’s any debate on his influence on pop and hip hop culture during his tenure. Not only has he enjoyed the respect of the streets but the $$$ of corporate America. Too many hits to list (btw…i loved the Black Album). He could have keep the joints with RKelly to himself…but other than those missteps…Jigga’s done it. Period.

3. NaS
While NaS has not has had the commercial success that Jigga had, he has carved a place for himself in hip hop history. Illmatic is one of the best albums in history. NaS has the ability to preach to you without being “preachy”. You’re gonna learn something when you listen to him. I think he’s one of those artists who won’t truly be appreciated until he’s dead and gone.

4. Biggie
I gotta put him on the list. I wish we had more material to judge him off. I think if you look at his book of work…you won’t find many better lyricist. When you combine that with Puffy’s commercialism…he could have been at #1 by now if he had lived.

5. KRS-1
TREMENDOUS lyricist. There’s a reason why he’s known as the teacher. I’ve never heard a better freestylist. I’ve seen him live…frestyle for 15 mins…straight!!! He hasn’t had a lotta platinum plaques but he doesn’t have to. Knowledge Reigns Supreme Over Nearly Everybody. Nuff said

LL
I can’t put LL in my top 5. He’d be in the top 10, tho. I admire his longevity but he hasn’t brought that heat since Mama Said Knock You Out. We all know about his ability to battle but if somebody gave me LL’s hottest 16 bars…I’d take the hottest 16 from any of my top 5 and they’d roast LL. Sorry…it iz what it iz.

Tupac
I don’t think that anyone can deny his social conscientiousness. He brought a lot to the game. But he wasn’t lyrical. Not to me. I don’t think any of the material that was released after his death has helped his legacy. I don’t think he’d put that music out if he were alive.

Thanks, e!! I think you should do your top 10. I’m interested to see how the rest of the list would look.

btw…Lil Wayne won’t even be in my top 25. And I like Wayne. No hate…he’s just hot right now. Five years from now…it’ll be somebody else.
Nat Turner II

LL has not been top 5 status SINCE Bigger and Deffer…he’s come out with some hot songs since then…all of which were posse cuts, but no where near top 5 when your list does not include Scarface, Ice Cube, Redman, Ghostface…hell MC Ren is better than LL(no offense to MC Ren)…If Canibus wouldn’t have been in such a hurry to get in the game and signed with Wyclef…LL’s career would be over!!!! I said it!!! That being said Cool J can’t even sniff my top 20. I honestly think one of the most slept on rappers of all time is The Rapper Jalil from Whodini. I love Rakim…but I feel that he is overrated…I wouldn’t even want to hear him rap now. KRS-One is timeless…he can still kill everybody in the game…no Big Daddy Kane…no love for Kool G. Rap? And would people stop saying that Kanye West is tight…if he wouldn’t have come out on the Roc…he wouldn’t be an emcee right now…yeah he says some “clever” things but he is EXTREMELY overrated…Jay Z is the best rapper ever by YOUR stipulations…he has more than one classic album, too many quotables, and not only that he has album sales, radio play, and his influence on the culture of not only hip-hop, but pop culture in general can’t even be measured…not to mention the longevity of his relevence in the game. Change the name of your list to your FAVORITE emcees of all times if LL is ranked higher than Jay Z, KRS-One, and Nas…I’m just sayin…
http://www.dariustwilliams.blogspot.com Darius T. Williams

You know…I can’t even name a top 10 in this category. I don’t know a damn thing about hip hop music.
http://anonymouscox.blogspot.com/ Tittayballs

OMG! Kool G Rap! Damn! He’s definately one of the coldest MC’s ever!
RayyLive

ANY Top 5 list that excludes Big Daddy Kane is really NOT a list at all! The MOST versatile MC of all time! Rocked all kinds of tracks from Hardcore, Pro-Black/Conscience, Dance and just plain lyrically DOMINANT! Kane ended the era of two syllable raps!